I just looked at the configuration options for the PZC and had to realize that the possibilities are very, very rudimentary. So my question here is whether there will be any adjustments made there or if it’s intentional?
I’ll gladly give you two examples:
My district borders the Hansestadt Hamburg, and that means for many, especially more specialized departments, ambulances are driven to Hamburg. However, Hamburg doesn’t use IVENA at all, as they have their NIDA arrival board. Do I have to manually select/come up with possible assignments based on departments for these hospitals, or are these hospitals still routed to even though they are external?
I have a clinic that doesn’t have a pediatrics department. Normal surgical cases for children from a certain age can still be treated there (such as a broken arm without surgery, etc.). Internal medicine cases, on the other hand, cannot. It would therefore be unrealistic if an internal medicine emergency were otherwise registered with a patient age of 6 years.
Is this just how it is, or are there further options still in the planning stage? Because apart from the four pediatric PZCs, there is no further differentiation.
This is not complaining!!! It’s merely a question about better configuration and future outlook. I think others might have similar issues since IVENA is simply not in use nationwide (though it would be nice)
Is it perhaps possible to configure the individual POIs? I think it would be easier to configure that way.
That is, not via the PZC page, but for each POI that is a “hospital”, checkboxes could be set in the configuration of the respective POI to determine which PZC code this POI responds to. With the current PZC page, it’s an enormous effort to go through every PZC and enter each individual hospital, I find.
Also, have I understood correctly that the specialist departments you specify in the POI are merely a kind of placeholder for visual display, but have no effect and will have no effect in the future?
I think it would be good (and it’s possible that it will be implemented this way) if they simply transmitted the code and then you (like in real life) could enter it somewhere, check which hospital accepts it (which would be displayed via the specialties that were selected via the POIs at the hospitals), and then manually assign the vehicle to that hospital.
Bei uns melden die Rettungsmittel selbst in der Klinik über Tablet oder Diensthandy an. Sollte es Empfangsprobleme geben kann die Leitstelle dies tun aber das ist super super selten. Ich denke da sind wir wieder beim Problem das es zu viele verschiedene Leitstellen gibt. Aber eine genauere Umsetzung von IVENA wäre Sinnvoll sofern man dies möchte. Es gibt natürlich auch Admins die nicht so viel Wissen über IVENA haben
I would join in on that as I have similar points to raise:
Is it possible to set up hospitals to accept only pediatric patients, for example? So any patient below a certain age can be transported to that facility for all complaint groups (PZC)? Patient age is typically included in the PZC anyway. Perhaps there’s a way to define which hospitals accept which age categories? That way you could also set up “adults-only emergency departments.” In our case, adult emergency departments sometimes accept older children for minor injuries, but not for critical patients. Maybe you could also break it down by severity level (SK) there?
For example, head injuries (SHT) closed – severity levels SK1 and SK3 are two different things. One is outpatient, the other potentially requires a shock room with ventilation, etc. Will there be a way to select by severity level which hospital takes which complaint groups (PZC)?
The configuration of the complaint groups (PZC) is extremely tedious and exhausting. Maybe you could simplify that and make it more pleasant for admins? It’s currently also difficult to check what’s already been set up, since you have to click through each individual PZC. Perhaps a table view or the ability to select multiple PZCs and assign them to a hospital in one go would be helpful?
Am I understanding this correctly…I select the specialist departments in the hospitals of my district, and any missing specialist departments in hospitals in the surrounding area of the district? How does the rescue vehicle then decide which one to drive to? Based on distance? Do I have to “hide” the specialist departments of the external hospitals, or are they only considered after the district’s own ones?
It would have been nice if the developers had written something more about this.
The medical specialty listed there is basically just a label of a visual nature. However: It is possible to specify the bed capacity of the respective medical department at each hospital later on. Then it becomes more strategic in the simulation, of course.
If you don’t have a suitable hospital with a medical department for the PZC, you can simply select emergency department, for example, and a transport request would still be assignable.
The assignment you can make later essentially only controls which hospital the rescue vehicle will go to. Currently, this happens more or less randomly.
Of course, there will be more options in the future. For now, however, this is the rudimentary essentials needed to make it work at all.
That’s going to be difficult, though, because not every hospital lists the number of beds for each medical specialty on their website. On top of that, there are patients who come to the hospital on their own, which also changes the bed situation. So specifically: how is this supposed to work? How do you developers have this planned? Even though it’s still early, it would really be good to explain this in more detail here.
Naja genauso wenig steht öffentlich geschrieben welche PZCs du deinen KHs zuordnen kannst. Bei uns gibt es ein KH welches auf der Homepage ein HKL angibt. Der RD kann dort aber trotzdem keinen STEMI anmelden, da sie dies im Notfall nicht auf Zeit können oder nicht durchgängig besetzt sind. Also selbes Problem. Das ist mit den Informationen halt immer so eine Sache aber im Zweifel muss man dort Abstriche machen.
Naja, die Fachabteilungen stehen schon bei jedem Krankenhaus im Internet, nur halt nicht mit der Anzahl Betten. Natürlich müssen wir improvisieren, denn im Gegensatz zur Realität gibt es keine Meldung bzw aktualisierung von außen über entweder der Zentralen Bettenverwaltung oder der Krankenhäuser. Ich bin gespannt, wie das ganze sinnvoll laufen soll bzw wird.
I have another question: What is the “Assignable” field supposed to mean? The one where you can select a hospital’s medical department? I thought it would be a yes/no field. Or does it mean which medical department is required for a specific PZC? In that case, you would need to be able to select multiple departments. And with the maximum care providers, you can’t select anything—I assume because they have every medical department?
Klingt logisch für mich. Im IVENA System gibt es ja auch einen PüP (Patientenübergabepunkt) und ich denke das es hier eine Anlehnung in die Richtung ist bzw. Man für sich definiert welche Fachabteilung für den PZC überhaupt benötigt wird.
Ich überlege nur, weil wenn ich jetzt eine laufende Reanimation habe, reicht mir ja auch im echten IVENA keine Notaufnahme aus. Da muss im Hintergrund ein Schockraum, ein Intersivbett, Kardiologie, Neurologie etc. zur Verfügung stehen. Was wähle ich von den vielen Fachabteilungen denn aus?
“Emergency department” cannot be selected for the maximum care provider. Probably because this “specialized department” was only created during the development process. In any case, I’ve just tested it back and forth with my control center: the maximum care provider has no emergency department, no stroke unit, no trauma room selectable for the PZC.
I have to agree with my predecessors: processing PZC in the administration is incredibly cumbersome.
Wouldn’t a simple table with checkboxes have been better, where I can simply check which hospital can accept which PZC?
Managing bed capacity by medical specialty is not a control center’s job and has nothing to do with “strategic.” Either a hospital is green in IVENA, then the ambulance with the reported PZC can go there, or it’s red, then the vehicle cannot go there.
@danielschwarz perhaps you could just let us know the programmer’s intended direction. Will there be further refinement of the PZC? Which of my hospitals do I use now if there’s a difference in the last digit? 231 XX 2 can also be two district hospitals for me, but at 231 XX 1 both are out… So it would be necessary to know how the simulator is supposed to implement this, so we control center admins also know what work is worth doing and what isn’t.
Somehow I’m afraid this was again only half-baked and faster “solutions” were found instead of really thinking something through and actually developing it - sorry for these honest words.
There is, at least in my control centers, the following problem: The 2 hospitals in the Harburg district control center area are well-equipped, but in the classic sense are not actually maximum care providers. However, most transports are taken to these hospitals. The issue is that when a hospital in the sim is marked as a maximum care provider, the specialized departments are no longer selectable. So I would have to declare a hospital in Hamburg as a maximum care provider, but this could result in many transports being sent there, which would not match the real-world situation. Wouldn’t it be possible to essentially remove the maximum care provider criterion and work purely with the specialized departments?
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Das mit den Haken würde ich auch begrüßen
– luelli